Video: Dr. Mads Gilbert Has A Prescription For Gaza

Transcript

Introduction and Overview of the Palestinian Struggle and Israeli Occupation

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hi Dr gilbertt thank you so much for sitting here with trt today I'd like to

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cover a few things with you today uh regarding your experience your long-standing experience in Gaza um your

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views as you've already articulated to some extent in the um Independent Media

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about Western media and its preoccupation as I believe you call it uh with uh covering certain aspects of

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gaza's medical facilities and finally uh your view on the role of Palestinian civilians

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in uh sustaining human life so um you've been going to the

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occupi territories since at least the late 80s and I'm wondering if you can shed light on how the current situation

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in Gaza is particularly different from perhaps anything you've seen asalam

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alikum Paul thank you for having me uh yeah where should we start um I think

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for anyone who knows the Palestinian struggle and the brutality of the Israeli occupation of

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Palestine um there is not much new to the way they

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are exercising their power and their oppression and their brutality but the

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magnitude of the attacks and the extent of the destruction of Gaza and the

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killing of course has never been seen before and then we're not talking about

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only Palestine and the occupation Army of the Israeli state but in in world

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history for the last century I don't think there has been any military attack

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on another people with such a brutal

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systematic viciousness and brutality the number of civilians killed

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is is shocking the number of children killed is beyond shocking it's probably around

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12,000 Palestinian children and children by definition are young people from zero

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up to 18 years uh this number of killed children is surmounting

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anything that the occupation forces have done before so there is a a shift

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towards much more killing of civilians although they have always been targeting

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civilians when they attack Gaza and also the West Bank the extent of destruction

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of the society is beyond anything we have seen before they are completely

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shattering the whole civilian Palestinian Society in Northern Gaza in particular I mean schools universities

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water pipelines sewage systems homes not to forget hospitals

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primary healthcare clinics ambulances we've seen all these things being TG T it before but never to the extent now

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now Northern Gaza looks like a desert or like Hiroshima and uh also racism the overt

Destruction of Gaza's Civilian Infrastructure, Medical System

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racism in the arguments for the attacks on Gaza and the West Bank I don't think

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we have heard that before just two days ago uh the keset all the Jewish members

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of the ceset voted against a State solution basically they voted against

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any Solution on how to solve this occupation because this is not a

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difficult conflict everybody used to say oh such a difficult conflict I I can't

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make a stand this is a difficult occupation and occupations are illegal

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doctor you've talked about how before October 7 the medical system within Gaza

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was already severely compromised by Israel I'm wondering if you can uh speak to when you notice that was that uh

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before or after the blockade for example and whether you think governments

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internationally um when you first noticed that were doing enough to address you that that situation you know

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the Palestinian people as I know them and I I had my first uh medical travel

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to work with the Palestinian people in 1981 when I went as a young resident of

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anesthesiology which is my specialty and emergency medicine I went to Beirut because this Reales were bombing Beirut

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because at that time in 1981 the PLO and fata which was the armed wing of the PLO

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the Palestinian Liberation Organization they were the ones who were waging the armed struggle against the occupation of

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Palestine and uh just as a footnote uh your viewers should not forget that any

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any occupied people have the legal right to fight occupation with arms the armed

Legal Rights and Historical Resistance

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struggle against occupation is not terrorism it is Liberation and

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Liberation is legal that's how we got rid of a colonization of the global

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south of course that armed struggle has to take place within the framework of

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international law protecting hospitals protecting children and women and civilians not attacking schools all of

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these laws that we have in the Geneva Convention the hog convention and so on but within that framework Every Nation

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who is occupied by another nation has the right to fight occupation and the

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last one to say this was the spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the UN which was quite a big

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thing it was two days ago and he really put the you know the right thing on the

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right place he said what's going on in Gaza it's not terrorism and between the lines he

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actually said that terrorism is what the Israeli occupation Army is

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perpetrating so what the Palestinians have been struggling with through all

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these years since 48 is to find a strategy and and and a way out of this

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unwanted unwelcomed division of their land in 48 and then the unwanted and

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unwelcomed expansion brutal expansion of the settler Colonial Israeli project

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which is embedded in the Zionist political movement that they want to occupy and take all Palestine from The

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River To The Sea that's the Israeli flag the two blue lines it's from the river to the Mediterranean you know and

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between there you have the the the a Israel the state of Israel so what I saw saw in beut in 1981 and 82 were two

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things number one the Israeli Army tried to kill the leadership of PLO and F

Dr. Gilbert's Personal Experiences in Lebanon and Gaza

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because at that time that was Hamas that was the armed resistance against the

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occupation and the colonization so they bombed fakan in 81 we went down with the team it didn't take so long with the

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bombing so we worked there for for a short while in a refugee camp but then in 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon went all

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the way up to West beut besieged West bayut as they have been doing with gasa

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for the last 16 years they cut the water they cut the fuel they cut the medical supplies they cut the Food Supplies as

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they are doing with Gaza and they bombed West beut relentlessly night and day for

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the whole summer of 1982 in order to achieve two things to kill the

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leadership of the Armed resist as they are doing in Gaza now they called them terrorists Abu Amar yasat

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was a terrorist abush shahad was a terrorist by definition of the US and

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the Israelis and they wanted to to reduce or to quell or to strangulate the will of

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resistance of the Palestinian people because remember in Lebanon there are

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hundreds of thousands if not millions of Palestinian refugees from 48 who have

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the right to return they are living in a very very difficult situation in the camps in Rashid in Sabra and shatila and

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B rash and so on all over Lebanon and they resist so in 82 I saw two important

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things and I felt it and I smelt it and I I touched it the brutality of the

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Israeli attacks on civilians we were waiting in blood I was for the first time in my life lifting away amputated

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arms and legs from Young Palestinians and Lebanese and they showed no mercy

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they bombed ambulances they bombed hospitals they bombed apartment buildings they bombed the water pipeline

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the sewage system everything in the civilian society that upholds life and I

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was shocked I came from Norway I was pretty naive I'm politically very active but at the same time I thought there

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were Rules of Engagement not at all not for the Israelis supported by the US and

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Pentagon and then I saw the Palestinian Healthcare System and the doctors and the nurses and Dr fat Arafat who at that

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time the brother of yaser who was then the leader of the Palestine red crescent

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Society Halal who was an informal minister of health and I was extremely

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impressed by the way they improvised found Solutions we made a makeshift

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field Hospital in an underground Garage in the ne East School of Theology a

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Catholic school and we worked there together night and day to SA lives so going from 82 and my experience then

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with the Palestinians and the healthcare to Gaza and to the West Bank it's important to remember that the

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Palestinian people has always been the most educated people in the Middle East a very thirsty for knowledge very

Systematic Demolition of Palestinian Healthcare

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hardworking young students uh each family takes great pride in their kids

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having the best marks and they have National tests you know and 100 point if you score 98 95 97 M family is very

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proud you know in Gaza it's actually prohibited to have weddings parties

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celebrations I think it is the week before National tests isn't that

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beautiful because the students should have quiet should not be noise and you know shooting in the air because they

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concentrate for their National exams so the Palestinian people has always been very academic very well educated

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knowledgeable about philosophy Rel medicine whatever technology and they've

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built their universities and often when I lecture about Gaza in the United States I I I

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always ask do you know are there universities in Gaza and everybody goes no no no they don't have universities do

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they you know they have 10 so while you've seen so much in your time in the

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occupied Palestinian territories when do you feel that a doctor at what moment do you feel that a

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doctor knows that they have to reach out to the International Community and say we need

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people we need governments we need people of conscience to intervene here

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notwithstanding all their training and all their capability would you say there's a moment when a doctor

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recognizes that we can't do it you mean a Palestinian doctor or any doctor any

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Doctor Who is in the territory it's a good question I think I think the the the Palestinians would would actually

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answer you by saying we want to manage ourselves you know we're we're proud

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people we're building a good health care system for for our Palestinian fellow

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women and men and children we don't want to be dependent we're not a beggar a

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begging Society we're independent and proud and we know our medical stuff and we know how to run it but when you have

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an occupier who systematically kills your doctors nurses and paramedics and

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who systematically bomb your hospital of course there is a time when you have to say hello world hello world can you

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please stop these people from killing our medical staff and destroying our hospitals which should be protest

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protected according to your laws of course there is a moment for that and they do it in two in

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1981 fat arat issued an appeal to uh European and Western doctors to come to

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beay rout to assist them that appeal made us in Norway construct the first

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emergency surgical team that I was on so that appeal has been coming again and

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again and again from Palestinian healthc care uh authorities so I think the

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moment is is uh you know overripe and

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has been so for many years and the Palestinians are indeed appealing again

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and again and again to the International Community lift The Siege stop the

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attacks on Healthcare improve the living conditions because at the end of the day

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your health and my health is not first and foremost depending on a fancy

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ambulance helicopter like I work in or a big university hospital with flashing operating rooms and open heart surgery

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and all that public health depends on what we have here clean water food

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enough to eat safety that we are not attacked somebody comes there and shoot

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us a place to live work paid and safe work education and then comes healthc

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care and the occupation of Palestine and the living conditions for

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the people in the diaspora the refugees is first and foremost not characterized

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by the lack of fancy ambulance helicopters they know the rule of conduct they know international law if

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the hospitals had been military command centers I don't think they would have allowed it full stop so I haven't seen

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it show me the evidence and finally the Israeli occupation Army invaded shifa

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after having strangulated bombed shelled killed people inside and what did they

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find nothing they made fools of themselves now everybody says oh we cannot uh you know the Palestinian

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Society ask for BDS boycot I investment sanctions and then all the Western Society said no no no we can't do that

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with Israel well they did with Russia immediately after the invasion of of ukina but what people forget is that

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Israel the occupier had been imposing economical sanctions on Palestine for

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many many years and in 2006 after the election you know they immediately

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closed off the economical ties and the transfer of money and taxes and tolls

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and everything to to the West Bank and they besieged Gaza can you think of any

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more brutal BDS than the siege of Gaza so so actually these fundamental things

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water food uh income work housing education is denied the people of

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Palestine by the occupiers so we cannot solve that only by making more

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Healthcare you know so so I'd just like to make that point first because I'm sort of a a hospital specialist but then

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on the other hand of course what we have seen uh over the years this systematic

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very systematic strategy from the Israeli occupation forces to uh demolish Palestinian proper Healthcare

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and that has been at a level unseen before during this four months and uh

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and this uh last uh uh who report shows from each of the municipalities you know

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there are five municipalities in Gaza it's arafa canun deala Gaza City and

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North Gaza and here you see the number of hospitals that have been attacked and destroyed and out of 34 hospitals I

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believe now it's six or eight that are partially operating imagine imagine a

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state demolishing uh 75% of the hospitals in a

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neighboring country without any repercussions or reactions from the

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International Community why is Israel having this sacred position that they

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cannot be blocked or punished like they are you know eagerly punishing Russia

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very quickly with sanctions and political uh you know punishment yes

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that's a very good point that there's so many hospitals that Israel's already destroyed but as I believe you've

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remarked before there's this I think you use the word preoccupation with alifa and um how it's a distraction and

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I wonder if you can elaborate on that whether you see it as an example of something bigger that the Western media

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is is trying to do deliberately you know in a way the

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Western power elite I'm not talking about the people of the West because the people of the West in Canada and United

Western Media's Distraction Tactics & Palestinian Solidarity

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States in Europe in Norway they have been ananymous ly the majority standing

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up and saying we support Palestine but the governments have been very slow to recognize that they are pretty scared

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now because the street is so powerful and and the shout from the streets of all the capitals of all the cities all

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over the Western world is shouting you know impose sanctions uh Stop The

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Killing support Palestine but the the Western Powers have always been looking for scapegoats finding excuses to uh

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support the Israeli attacks on Palestinians you know one thing is to label them terrorists and that's like

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the thief crying shouting stop the thief because the real terrorist in this

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scenario is the state of Israel Israel is perpetrating State terrorism by

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definition using arms military powers to intimidate and scare the civilian

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population that's the definition of terrorism who's doing that Israel over and over and over again

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so the Western uh Powers the governments Tred to find excuses you know labeling

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people and then oh maybe this hospital this shifa hospital is a military

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command center so then it's okay to bomb it number one it's not okay to bomb a

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mixed civilian and Military Target Geneva Convention number four there are

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uh three important uh principles it's

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proportionality you should use the same level of weaponry and power against your enemy as the enem is using against you I

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mean that's that's every day if you're going to punish your child and you're an adult you can't take a bat and start

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beating the child you have to you maybe hold him by the arm and say you can't do this so that's

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proportionality then it is uh distinction which means that the armed uh parties have to make a clear

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distinction between civilian and Military targets like you can you can't bomb a school you can bomb a military

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Air Force Base distinction and then the important principle of

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precaution which means that if you have a Target which you think is military but

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it is also possibly a civilian Target like a church or a mosque and there are

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500 refugees in the church or in the mosque and there are may be two armed Fighters you cannot bomb that mosque

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just because you want to kill those to Fighters because the civilian protection

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takes priority over the military gain so even if there should be some fighters in

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shifa which I've never seen they still don't have legal arguments to buom shifa

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that's one thing and number two we have heard these allegations for years and

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years and years and years I heard it first time in 2006 we heard it in 2009

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and 12 this Israelis said we're going to bomb shifa because it's a military command center we were even asked to

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leave by our Minister of Foreign Affairs because the Israeli authorities had

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contacted the norian Minister of Foreign Affairs and said you have to get your two doctors out of chifa why did they

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want to get us out of shifa because they didn't want us to report because we reported we were

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treating patience together with our Palestinian colleagues and leaders but

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we were also reporting we gave interviews to anyone who wanted to listen and we could give the numbers I

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remember I had this as my notepad so I had the numbers of killed and injured and children and women and everything

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from hour to hour so we were important sources of information about what is it

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that's really going on in shifa and in Gaza they wanted us out for that reason they made the excuse that we're going to

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bomb it because it's a military command center we refused we stayed they didn't bom and now it comes up again the same

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allegations 16 years after they first claimed that chifa was a military

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command center where is the proof where is the evidence they've had 16 years

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with all their sophisticated intelligence and x-raying and everything they never showed any proof they made a

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tunnel when they were in Gaza during the intifada and another practical thing is

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that there is almost no modern hospital in this world that doesn't have a syst

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of tunnels underneath because it's for Logistics it's all for for the technical support it's for the you know the

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generators maybe or the batteries for the unbreakable power supply it's for the laundry and the kitchen and so on

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and so forth and to transport patients between the different departments and blocks so that's nothing new that there

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are tunnels under hospitals and the third Point I've never seen it I've been there uh for the better part of of 20

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years I've been working there uh during times of bumping and in between remember there are no borders around

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Gaza Israel which is not very known Israel has no internationally recognized

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borders if you discuss with somebody who's Pro Israeli give them give them a piece of paper and a pencil and ask them

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to draw the borders of Israel and Gaza they don't exist because they're pushing them all the time so when these 2.2

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million people are incarcerated they tried the civilian you know protest to go to the fence

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every Friday for one and a half year what happened they killed uh hundreds by

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shooting them and they wounded tens of thousands mainly by shooting in the

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extremities to make them you know handicapped so why would not these

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people at one point break out of the ghetto I don't call it a prison because in prison you have convicted people and

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you cannot convict 2.2 million Palestinians of being Palestinians and one thing I before we wrap up I want

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to ask you without of course romanticizing it because of um what we're seeing is so horrific um there

Universal Lessons from Palestinian Struggle

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seems to be among the civilian population in Gaza uh this kind of like

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exceptional selfishness to help the medical staff and the rescue team that I personally

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have never seen before and I'm not sure if that's the right word selfishness but it's a kind of remarkable compassion

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that I've not seen and courage and strength and I'm wondering in your experience what do you think accounts

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for that and I feel that it um as a western person it forces me to

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interrogate myself you know because coming from a culture the west where um

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there's so much of a championing of individualism uh whereas you see that which is a total

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opposite so I'm just wondering what do you feel accounts for that kind of um selflessness and encourage that's so

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remarkable I'm so happy for that question Paul and and I've I've been asking myself the same having having

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state so much together with the Palestinians and in particular in Gaza over the last uh uh 20 years and I don't

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only go there when it's bombing I I go two three times a year uh I teach uh at

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the University I do research together with my fellow Palestinians I work with development of healthcare under the

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leadership of the Palestinian Healthcare leaders like Dr yusf abish the brilliant minist of health and and every time we

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Face a problem there is always a solution around the corner in

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Gaza every time there is some sort of hardship there is always some helping

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hands as you say I am a hopeless romantic so I like to think that this is

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part of our Universal human quality it is to come to the assistance of the

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other when the other is for some reason helpless incapacitated have a problem is

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poor lacks food uh or or needs to be lifted up and cared

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for but again the political forces that wants to divide us through racism and

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say that oh you're Brown and I'm white I'm not going to touch you or you're yellow and I'm white and you can be poor

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and I can be rich these political forces are trying to divide us and trying to

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explore uh uh to exploit to exploit this uh quality of human being of the

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existence into some sort of profit but at the core I think all of us have this

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this internal uh spine of dignity and

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solidarity with others I want to think that I want to believe that and I want

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to promote that and I want to be a person like that myself with a spine of

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dignity and solid ity and love for others racism apartheid occupation are

Dr. Gilbert's Dedication to the Cause & Conclusion

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exactly the opposite it is to disregard the value of human life now for the Palestinian people I

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think it is a virtue to be selfless to be supportive of the other and they have

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a name for it in Arabic it's called sumud and sumud actually is an Arab word

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meaning steadfastness and this steadfastness is part of

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Palestinian culture there is no doubt and there is no doubt that both in the West Bank and in Gaza and in the the

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camps around the world when you meet Palestinian people they're all in a way

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filled with a sense of being in this world also not just for yourself but for

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the other and you see it during times of hardship and bombing and I I totally

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agree when you look at the the the video clips from Gaza when you see a bombing

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take place of course people try to to to find

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cover but immediately when the bombing is is over you don't see people run away

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you see them run into the smoke and they start digging with their hands immediately why do they dig with their

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hands because Israel does not allow any fuel to come in so they can't use the cranes and the you know the machinery

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but you see them digging anyway with and without their vests you see them lifting carefully the injured the dying the Dead

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the martyrs into an ambulance or running them into a hospital

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endless actions of compassion solidarity and sumud and this is also I think a lesson

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to the world a message to the world a cry to the world we are maintaining our

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dignity we we are not allowing ourselves to degenerate to the animals that they

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are treating us like and not only are they treating like the animals like animals but they're even naming them as

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animals the Palestinians resist and they stand tall in their

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dignity and their Humanity with their sumud and it is as you say extraordinary

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and we all should take a lesson from Gaza and from the West Bank we should

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take a lesson from Dr Muhammad Al Ram from Dr Naf Karim from Dr Khal and from

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all the other healthcare workers and the people and the volunteers and the ambulance paramedics because they are

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actually telling us what it means to be human in times of the utter hardship

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confronted with death confronted with starvation losing your child they stand

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tall and they ask themselves when it's bombing how can I be of help for the other

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so the Israeli occupation the Israeli attack has completely failed in trying to discourage or

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demoralize the Palestinian people in Gaza and in the West Bank the more they're bombed the taller they stand the

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more they are starved the more they show compassion for each other and even if

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they're dropping leaflets and and and made up Arab newspapers or or news

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leaflets saying that oh you have to attack Kamas they are responsible they cut through it because they are all part

30:33

of the resistance even if they're fata or their Hamas or their shihad or their socialists or Muslims or Christians this

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is not a Muslim cause this is not a political cause this is a cause for

30:46

Humanity and the Israeli attacks on Gaza and in the West Bank these attacks are

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attacks on all of us on a platform of dignity Humanity and Justice in this

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world if we don't react now how is it going to look tomorrow who's next is it

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turkey is it Lebanon is it Jordan is it Norway because if we let this lose now

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might will Define right and right will not Define right and when we let might

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Define right without stopping it we are going back to the law of the Jungle and I don't want to live in that world so we

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should thank the Palestinian people people for their steadfastness their smood and their enormous courage and

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bravery in standing up we all have a lot to learn from the Palestinian people in

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Gaza and in the West Bank and my deepest respect and my thank goes out to

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them I wish I could do more I wish I could be there I am refused I'm denied

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access by the Israeli occupiers because I'm too dangerous I wish I could be there and do

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more but I will promise like we all should promise ourselves we will do more

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here we have to do more solidarity work we have to do do more to push our governments to St take a stand we have

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to do more to have Financial economical blockade of of Israel and political

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sanctions against Israel we have to have weapon embargo on Israel and you and me

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and all of us who are only one we can stand together and be an army of solidarity for the Palestinian people

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and at the end of the day that is a struggle for you and for me and for everyone and thank you so much thank

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[Music]

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you