Video Infoblog; Israel is Caught in a Historic Impossibility and Its Economy is in Trouble
Transcript
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when you look at the conflict right now in Gaza we've seen that the Israeli Minister of Justice trying to force Nao
0:12
to escalate the situation to attack Rafa how do you see the Biden's policy in
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Gaza how do you see the neto's policy in this conflict well I think what you're
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watching is best understood by not doing what we
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call here in the United States getting lost in the weeds and you don't see the
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big picture you get lost in the little details so I'm going to try to answer
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your question by talking uh about the big
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picture Israel is one of the last if not the
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last effort at what we call settler colonialism settler colonialism that's
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when a group of people sometime in the last four
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centuries the history of capitalism a group of
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people settle in a colonial territory so the British government or the Dutch
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government or uh somebody else takes over some land usually with military
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force and then to make it a paying proposition and remember the goal in
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colonial uh situations was to make the colony pay for its own
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colonization so for example the first book I ever wrote was about British
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colonialism in East Africa and they made the people of East Africa grow coffee
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the single most important product arabica coffee grown in the highlands in
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the middle of Kenya okay they needed labor so they
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made the Africans live in reserved areas where they could not sustain themselves
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there wasn't enough land uh there wasn't enough place for animals so the only way
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to survive would go to be and work on the coffee Farm of the colonial British
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who came in got the land for next to nothing and were now provided with the
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labor and could sell their coffee back into London okay so this was a settler
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colonialism Australia is another one New Zealand is another one South Africa is
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another one Canada and the United States are also what you notice though in the list
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I just gave you is that the settlers found themselves sooner or later in a
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oppositional position with the local local population and so what began to happen
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was the systematic destruction of those local people so for
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example again using my example of Kenya it eventually produced in the early
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1950s something called the Mau Rebellion of black Africans rising up against the
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British and it forced the British out a few years after that um even though they
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slaughtered huge numbers of African people by that time it was over they
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knew and the British had to leave here in the United States same thing ethnic
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cleansing is what the settlers eventually did they destroyed literally
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by mass killing the native or indigenous people the few that remain are still to
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this day stuck many of them on reservations where they can barely make
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a living uh indigenous Americans are among the poorest uh the least healthy uh the most
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riddled with crime and alcohol and all the
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rest it became after they were done it became a
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new world in which ethnic cleansing and the slaughter of indigenous people was
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no longer celebrated in the 17th 18th 19th century the British thought they
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were bringing God and civilization and progress and modernity
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to India or to Pakistan or to fill in the blank but nowadays everybody un not
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everybody but almost everybody understands that that's not what was going on that there was money
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being made um it was a standard joke in England that if you could not be
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successful in your career in England you could always go to the colonies and
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there you would become a gentleman farmer because all the work was done by the masses in India uh and so forth okay
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the problem for Israel is that it's trying to do the same thing but but is
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doing it too late the world is not what it was the balance of forces is not what
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it was you can't do in the 21st century
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what was common in the 18th and 19th centuries nobody should be surprised at
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that but there's deep in the Israeli population a sense of the
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hypocrisy the hypocrisy of the British or the Americans or the
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Australians wanting them to make a deal well they didn't make a deal there
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are no two-state solution for the mayori people in New Zealand or the Aboriginal
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people in Australia or the indigenous people in the United States and Canada
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not at all no two-state solution they couldn't even vote in
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elections here until a few years ago so they they don't have most civil rights and on and on and
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on so that's the first problem Israel is caught in a historic
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impossibility the world will not tolerate what the Israelis are doing the
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very people who did it themselves 200 years ago are now not willing to watch
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it unfold old here yes for the first few months they
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all looked away and pretended they didn't have to but now and you know why
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because the rest of the world the Arab world the Muslim world and the whole
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world watching this Slaughter is horrified you can't be telling anybody
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that they're bringing God or modernity or anything else you are slaughtering
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the people in in order to take the land that's what it's about and the rest of the world protests
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and that makes it very hard for the um Western World you know Australia New
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Zealand and the rest of them to pretend that they can be neutral they
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can't they can't so that's the first problem Israel's project is a
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historical impossibility you cannot do it now and wherever they draw the red
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line whether it's going into the camp at Rafa or whether it is by the
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way attacking a consulate in Damascus of
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the Iranian government uh without any provocation that anybody has been able
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to point to just as an act of war in a non-war situation when you're already at
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War somewhere else this is crazy stuff you know and the world looks at it that
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way and if they take the troops out of Gaza and put them against he Hezbollah
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in in the in the North in against Lebanon and so on it'll be the same you
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can't do this now and the Israelis are discovering
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they can't Mr Biden has been Pro Israel all
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of his life he collects huge amounts of money from the
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pro-israeli uh donors here in the in the United States he has all his alliances
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built around that and you could see what he did he was 100% for
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Israel yeah now he's 42% for Israel why
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has he changed his mind of course not but he sees all around the world the signs of a
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changed situation he miscalculates because he
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doesn't understand the big picture you and I have discussed this he
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miscalculated and the people around him and the European leaders they didn't
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understand what they were doing going to war against Russia the war against
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Russia they are losing that war and there's no sign of changing they
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have escalated over and over again they would never send in tanks they did they
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would never send in uh surface to air missiles they did they would never send
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in F-15 fighter planes they did now they will never send troops on the ground
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they probably will none of it works none of it
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works here's another sign the whole world is supporting mostly Hamas not
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Israel therefore they miscalculated they thought they could destroy Hamas they can't every time they
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kill somebody and they call everybody they kill Hamas every time they kill somebody
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three more people become Hamas because they saw their mother being killed or
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they saw their child being destroyed you are creating more Hamas with every day
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this is crazy this is a policy that is
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self-destructive but you can't see it in the minds of many in Israel they can't
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see it any more than um the Americans could see that the Russians could and
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would mount a serious war effort and not just serious militarily but serious
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politically serious diplomatically serious you know
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ideologically they they miscalculated those are the two major Wars right now Gaza and Ukraine and the
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West miscalculated both of them and no those are not isolated incidents they
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miscalculated in Iraq they miscalculated in Afghanistan the Taliban run
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Afghanistan it's very clear and the biggest winner in the Iraq
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Iran situation is Iran who's supposedly an enemy I mean and you're not seeing
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any adjustment they can't see what is
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happening so the biggest problem is a change in the world that these people
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have set themselves against and if a relatively small group of
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people Israeli Jews are a small number whatever that is
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six million 8 million whatever the number is but they're not they're not
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strong enough to take on the whole world and it's an illusion and a
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delusion for them to imagine that they can do that they can't do it militarily
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they can't do it economically they can't do it politically they can't even
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subdue the people of Gaza and Mr Biden
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miscalculated even in his own country he thought that this country would be
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unanimously pro-israeli not true to the surprise of
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many and I admit I'm one of them I'm surprised at the amount of American
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sympathy for Gaza for the Palestinians including many American
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Jews many and Mr Biden is therefore confronted with having insisted we're
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with you 100% and now he has to retreat it's going to hurt him in the election
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it's going to hurt him a lot he may still win but he is worried that's the
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only reason he is telling Mr Netanyahu you better
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adjust and Mr Netanyahu is talking I'm sure to Mr
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Trump erogan who was so tough when he was talking about Israel but he didn't
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do anything and his party has lost it seems that he's changing his policy toward
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Israel he just turkey is imposing export restrictions to Israel just today they
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announced that on 54 products in including jet fuel engine oil
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chemicals and many other things on the other hand we see that 68% of
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Israelis are supporting this policy in Gaza it seems to me that they're not
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understanding at the end of the day they have to get along with these countries well yeah let's let's remember their
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power has always been dependent on and sustained by the power of the United
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States but they don't understand any more than the leaders in the United States that
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the power position of the United States is not today what it was 10 years ago or
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20 years ago or 30 years ago and that therefore the support for Israel that
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they used to assume is now this is a
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terrible shock to them they don't know what to do they
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cannot uh go against the United States the United States provides 2third of
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their military equipment you know uh Germany provides
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about 25% and Italy the rest that's it that's who's and all of these countries
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all of them even Germany have large movements now that are not in favor when
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the hooes began to throw missiles on the ships in the Red
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Sea what I said to people was this every Arab community that is sympathetic to
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Palestine which is almost every one of them every Muslim Community around the
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world that watches the West smashing a Muslim population in a very unfair uh
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battle there they are all looking for ways to push back at
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Israel and even if they don't want to and are afraid of the Israelis and many
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of them are they have their own internal population Mr erdogan lost an election
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for the control of Istanbul and he lost in many of the other larger cities now
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this is an old struggle in Turkey but it is hurting him and the people he needs
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to mobilize want him to do something about the Palestinian so now he has to
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he's worried for his own reasons he now has to do what the hutis did in terms of
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Yemen but that's not the end of it there are people in pistan who want that
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government to do something and in Bangladesh and in Indonesia what what is Israel going to do all by itself with an
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America that is looking longer and longer uhoh we don't want it this is an
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impossible situation for them and so they hold on which frightened people
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often do they hold on to the old idea
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that they can strongly attack in this case the
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Palestinians they feel that the pales Ians hate them which
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is got a lot of truth to it and that they are in danger from those
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Palestinians that's also true the problem is they have to face
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that they cannot do what they're now doing but their frustration is they
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don't know what else to do time is not on their side they need
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to settle that land they need to push those Palestinians off the land bring in
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people to settle the land so that they have some chance of saying well yes the
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history was not so good but here we are we've been you we're planting our olive trees and we have our settlements and I
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mean they should have learned by now that destroying the Palestinians doesn't
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work savagely repressing them doesn't work bombing the crap out of their
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cities and towns which is what they've done the last six months it's not going to work
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either you know what are they doing but again I don't want to get lost
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in Mr Netanyahu is trying to stay out of jail yes I'm sure he is and and Israeli
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politics are now dominated by the right wing yes true enough but I think those
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are the surface below that is a contradiction that to be a settler
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colonial society having to destroy the mass of
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the indigenous people this is a project that the world today will
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not allow and I don't deny that it's taking
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the Arab countries a long time to do something they yell and they scream and
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they vote in the UN but you're right they don't do very much but my guess is
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there's a lot that they're doing we don't see because they don't want us to see it and that makes sense I think
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Hamas is surprising Everybody by the fact that it's still
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there I mean they have the support of the people but they also have the
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weapons they also have the friends abroad they are putting up more of a resistance then was and if if Israel
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attacks Hezbollah they're going to have a war on two sides going to be very
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difficult for them and the Israeli economy is is B is a bad joke now it's
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like the Ukraine economy it's not there it's dependent more and more on the
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United States at the same time that the United States mostly for internal
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reasons cannot keep doing this I don't see a way out for the
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Israelis just like I don't see a way out uh in the war in Ukraine the Russians
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have said we are not going to lose this war and the West has so far said we're
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not going to lose this war and they have both said they won't use nuclear
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weapons at least they won't be the first to use nuclear weapons well if you're
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not going to use nuclear weapons and neither side is going to let the other side win then what are you saying you're
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saying this is an endless war you know that's what I see I Israel
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is caught up in an endless war but I'm afraid if I look at it all the odds are
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the West will cave in because the cost of an endless war in the west is not
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worth it whereas the cost of that war for Russia is worth it it and in the end
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I would therefore bet on Russia but you never be sure and is the same is true in
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Israel they can fight forever but you know what kind of society is that look I
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know from the United States here's a statistic more young men who serve in
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the American Military die by Suicide when they come
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back home then die in the war the Israelis have been committing
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unspeakable Behavior that's going to affect Israel Israel has a huge opposition
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inside the country that talks about what is going on and is against it the
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Israelis are going to have to work that out and that's going to be an incredibly difficult thing for them to
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do that's why I know quite a few people in and out of
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Israel who say and it's not just political rhetoric but who say with real
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intensity that the greatest damage imaginable is being done to the Israelis
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they're not yes they're not suffering the bombs I don't want to compare it the suffering of the Palestinians is is for
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sure the horror the worst of this whole story no question but the Israelis are
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damaging their position which is a minority position in a small corner of
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the world you cannot survive if you have gone from the victim of a holocaust to
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becoming the perpetrator of a holocaust and that's what's happening to the
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reputation of Israel around the world and that is going to be an unbelievable
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burden for a country that already has lots of problems Richard if the United
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States the Senate the Congress decide to sanction turkey in response to what
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they're doing right now to Israel how do you see the future of relationship
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between the United States and Turkey do you think that would convince turkey to go to the opposite side to break
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probably I think that's the most likely outcome but we already see that turkey was once a very strong Ally of NATO and
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the west and it's already changed all of that um the movement towards Islam the
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fact that an erdogan could become the leader despite the history of Ataturk
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and the other secular part of Turkey you know the people who won the election
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last week that's the same old secular EUR looking uh
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Modern urban against the mola you know against the the rural The Village the church all
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of that that's continues to play out you know with the addition of the of the uh
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ethnic issues but put them aside for a minute so there's already a lot lot of push in Turkey to go East to go further
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into the Muslim to to to struggle inside and that may lead
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Eran to go in that direction especially if a growing see this is the key thing
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if a growing part of the Turkish middle class the Turkish bisi the Turkish
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industrialists the Turkish Banks the Turkish merchants
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if they see participating in bricks as a
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reasonable objective that they can do to replace the business they lose in Europe
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and North America and Japan they then will move and then it's over then turkey
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will join the bricks and be uh allied
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with uh Saudi Arabia and with Egypt and so on uh as an Arab block within the
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bricks and that's the the fear of the United States but if of course they sanction him then I think they
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understand probably that they've lost it their only hope then would be to
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mobilize the business community in turkey and they would then
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what would happen uh is that they would begin to demonize
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erdogan and they would do that in a way the way they did it with Putin the way
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they did it with Saddam Hussein he will become a monster he will become a
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religious right-wing extreme islamist uh he'll become an enemy of
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progress he will be the oppressor of women he will you you could see it all
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coming and that will be the effort to pressure the middle class of turkey to
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turn against they don't like him anyway so they turn against him even more and
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then you have the maidan then you then you'll the CIA will come in find
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somebody who's popular in Turkey to rise up and lead a movement to get rid of
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erdoan that might work that might that but that's what's left to them that's
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what's left and you know for the the way the United States has functioned
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it is producing more and more enemies with more and more reason to get
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together in hostility against the United States you can't keep doing this
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without producing your own downfall the big picture of the United
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States is that the Empire that it once had from 1945 let's say to
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1990 it's over what collapsed in 1989
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was not only the Soviet Union but with it the dominant position of the United
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States that too began to collapse the peak when it was a
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unipolar a g Gonic power that Peak was
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also the beginning of the decline and until that is
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understood which it is not and accepted which it is not you will continue to
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have leaders that make unbelievable miscalculations because they're not
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seeing this big picture because it is so frightening you know I repeat every
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Empire the world has ever seen was born evolved and changed over time and then
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it died the American Empire was born we know where when and how it has evolved
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over time we know about that so that we all know what the next step is it's
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finished the only question is not whether it's only a question of when and
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exactly how and what's going on is we're living through the early stages of that
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Decline and so what we see and there's much understanding of
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this in the field of psychology what we see is denial the reaction this is not we are
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powerful we are still we are we are we are we are losing in the Ukraine and we
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are losing in Gaza and and there's no amount of
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twisting and turning at this point that makes that
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untrue is the United States still powerful yes is it still very rich yes
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could it turn around these societies probably but it can't do it to all of
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them and there's now a fundamental new reality there's more
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wealth gathered in the hands of the bricks than is gathered in the hands of
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the G7 and this has to be an enormous
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change that is going to shape everything that happens whether it be Ukraine or
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Gaza or any other corner of the world Richard I want to talk about a very
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political subject that John mimer always talking about it he says that might
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makes right this is the the term he uses all
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the time and when I don't understand he's obsession with China when he talks
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about China when even he when he criticizes the war in Ukraine he says no we didn't have to go to this war with
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Russia because we need Russia to fight against
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China what where does it come from this type of mindset why they're thinking
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this way in your opinion why we need to have an enemy why we cannot live
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together in your opinion yeah well first of all all we can and I'm going to give
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you in a few minutes some examples of where we have done that um so don't be so quick to accept
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the premise uh Mir shimer is a very smart man and has much to teach us uh
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especially in that field of international relations where most of it is
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really uh poor journalism about it he brings a much more refreshing
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serious analytical mind to it all
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um let me take an example from the United States and we can see it by going back
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for a moment to settler colonialism I remember taking my
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children when they were younger to a small town in Western
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Massachusetts the name of the town old old Deerfield and in the town of old
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Deerfield they've done something very interesting they've
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reconstructed the way houses looked in the colonial time the early time before
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the United States was a a country before we were independent when we were a a
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early New Colony of Great Britain okay
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and if you walk through the town very interesting the the houses inside and outside you know historians and
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archaeologists have reconstructed an Old Colonial Village a tourist attraction so it's interesting
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it's different and I thought it might interest my children which it did but there was also something
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horrifying because there are little signs uh in front I believe of each house is a little sign about what
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happened here in 1742 or whatever the year was and the
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sign read like this on the 18th of July in the
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evening the Savages came and slaughtered
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two women and four children and a goat the next house here there was a
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hanging of savages that were caught stealing cows or
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horses next house The Savage and I remember explaining to my children
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something that's very bizarre the Europeans come 3,000 miles
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across the water from where they were born from where they grew up in Europe
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come 3,000 miles and enter the territory in which
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local people have been living for thousands of
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years take their land kill many of them
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but they are the Savages everything that happened in
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Colonial New England was contextualized by the danger to the
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community posed by the evil other evil others have been part of
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American life from the beginning you know it you had
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to make Savages of these people because if you didn't make them Savages what
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would they be and the answer is victims victims of they didn't come to
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Europe Europeans came to them they didn't take the land from from
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the Europeans the Europeans took the land from
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them the the Israelis have this problem the Palestinians didn't go to Europe the
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European Jews mostly came to to to that part of
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the world and they had more money and they had more connections and blah blah
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blah and so you have a problem here for the Jew again I just want to
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make the parallel for the Jews in Israel how are they going to look at the
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Palestinians they could the way the Palestinians do they could say look how
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poor their income is look how bad their diet is look how early in life they die
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look at how ill they are look at how poor their homes are then they become
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Maybe victims but who would they be victims of Israeli
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Jews so it is it's impossible you can't you can't live with this so they become
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Savages they're the ones you're not threatening them they are threatening
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you and everything you're doing is defense everything the Israeli Army does
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is identified by the letters IDF the Israeli
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defense they are defending they went crazy after October
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7th because Hamas attacked them they actually were
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victimized just a few of them 1,200 terrible but there was for that moment
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the real and it it touched the nerve in these people they feel victimized even
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if they weren't hurt when those Hamas people attacked on the 7th even if they weren't there even if their family
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wasn't there they felt the anger and bitterness
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of the the Palestinian population now expressed by Hamas and it we must and we
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have the right to defend ourselves and we will destroy those who want to
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destroy us Hamas is a very good a target for them because Hamas actually has a
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position of getting rid of Israel just like there were some indigenous people in Colonial New
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England who hated these Europeans given what the Europeans did how could it be
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otherwise and look at it too in Ukraine those people are dealing with the
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Russians as evil dangerous outside
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Savage threats that's it otherwise they would have to take seriously what the
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Russians are saying which is you attack the Russians speaking people in the
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eastern part of Ukraine and we're not going to let you do it and we're not going to let you get NATO equipment and
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bombs and make it all we're not going to let you do that we're not move and it's a defense
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idea and the the the ukrainians do not want to understand themselves as having
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been maneuvered into a project of NATO again that they don't want that they
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want the Russians to be bad and really all they have to hang on to is that the
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Russians did come first the Russians crossed the border and and that's an issue and that they have the right to
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bring that up that's not the point the point is notice this procedure in
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which you feel yourself to be so close to evil and terrible that
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you have to put all of that on to somebody else the Israelis know what the
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Palestinians think about Israel they don't want Israel there they feel abused
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by Israel they feel their land was taken all and there's a lot of Truth to all of
40:28
that but the Israelis cannot stay there and be the oppressor so they have to do
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something and what they've done which is what those Colonial people in New
40:41
England did was to make the other one Savage it's a little bit like for the
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United States we always needed an enemy when we didn't have the native people to
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be the Savages or in danger of we fought a war against the colonial Master King
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George III who dictated we didn't want that 1776 again in
41:09
1812 the British Empire thinking itself the Empire upon which the Sun never sets
41:17
thought they could easily squash their own British people who had become a settler colony in North America
41:25
they made a terrible mistake they lost the war in 1776 and they lost the war in
41:34
1812 but now to show you after that war was lost the British
41:41
slowly with lots of disagreement came to a recognition you
41:48
cannot beat the United States into submission you better work out a
41:54
way that Britain can grow gr and develop and that the United States can grow and
42:01
develop and they did that that was achieved no more Wars
42:08
between the United States and Britain ever again the last one
42:15
1812 that's 200 years of no war between them even though they were had had Wars
42:24
between them before and during that period the the bulk of the 19th century and
42:31
into the 20th century both Britain and the United States grew prospered and
42:39
developed the United States grew prospered and developed more
42:44
faster so in the end the British colonial government and the Little
42:50
Colony reversed their situation and the Little Colony became the dominant
42:56
economic Empire and Britain became a small cold wet island off the mainland
43:03
of Europe which is what it is now so they went through an enormous difficult role
43:10
reversal but they did not fight a war they did not destroy each other in
43:16
Endless combat so yeah you can come to another
43:22
solution whether the Chinese mean it or not I don't know I'm no expert ERT on
43:27
China and I'm not pretending or have any interest in pretending that their
43:32
motives aren't complicated and and so forth but I don't see them running
43:38
around the world fighting Wars they're not provoking Wars the United States is
43:43
provoking war in Taiwan you could see Taiwan from China
43:49
you can't see it from the United States what in the world is going on sending
43:55
troops to Taiwan sending military equipment what are you doing
44:01
again again the United States must have believed in the days when Henry
44:08
Kissinger and Richard Nixon opened up China and brought them into the
44:15
WTO that they could control how China developed they couldn't because
44:22
colonialism is over it's not coming back it's done but they didn't understand it
44:29
so China with a goal of developing quickly made some
44:35
experiments they tried the Soviet system government own and operated the
44:41
Enterprise they tried the let's call it the Scandinavian
44:48
system lots of government regulation but basically private Enterprise private
44:55
capitalism and all that the chin Chinese did with their experiments very practical is they came up with a hybrid
45:03
an economy that is half public owned and operated by the
45:08
Chinese government and half private capitalist Enterprises some Chinese some
45:16
Japanese American European 5050 nobody's done that before
45:22
Russia was overwhelmingly uh Soviet Union was overwhelmingly government owned and operated Britain and England
45:29
overwhelmingly private and then mixtures but the Chinese are the first really big
45:36
company to really kind of 5050 and control the whole thing by a
45:43
powerful government run by an even more powerful Communist party okay I'm not
45:51
there are problems with this there are injustices that are wrapped up one can
45:57
make all kinds of criticism and I believe in in in Social criticism and it
46:02
doesn't stop at China's door but that's no excuse not to see what China has done
46:10
it has taken the largest population on the earth and pull them out of poverty in
46:19
one generation no one has ever done that before it took centuries to do that in
46:27
Western Europe North America and Japan now we have much to learn from
46:34
that and the Chinese seem willing from what they say and so far from what they
46:40
do to demand the right to develop their economy but to be willing to sit down
46:47
and work it out as Britain and the United States were able to do in the
46:53
19th and the first half of the 20th century so I don't think we need to be
46:59
you know me shimer might makes right it's not always this you know conflict
47:06
and if you have more battleships and you have more troops you win you I mean does
47:13
that happen sometimes of course is it a necessity no no no no no look
47:22
Europe suffered unbelievably in World Wars one and two after World War I they tried to develop
47:30
a way to stop it the League of Nations that failed after World War II they tried
47:37
again this time they called it the United Nations and while the United Nations has
47:43
loads of problems we haven't seen Another World
47:49
War okay okay that's something let's
47:55
see where we can go with that one of the effects of that has been producing a
48:01
generation including today that is very nervous about another
48:07
War it's difficult for the governments of Germany France Britain Italy to
48:16
mobilize to fight the Russians there are a lot of people who don't want to go anywhere near there they remember what
48:23
their grandmother told them about what life was like during World War II or one so these wars
48:31
last a long time leave deep scars shaping politics for a long
48:38
time Israel is going to learn that lesson again in very painful ways as the
48:45
Arab countries and the Muslim countries lead the way in finding opportunities to
48:52
push back to show their own people we are helping the Palestinians we're not
49:00
politicians who say one thing and do something else and they will discover
49:05
ways of working out um your situation and again because
49:12
of the bricks are now a larger richer economic unit there is the economic
49:20
motive that is going to make more and more countries unwilling to do the the
49:26
the conf conflicting challenging confrontational foreign policy that the
49:33
United States pursues and I think most of the world sees it and I really think
49:39
this is true as the United States being a declining Empire that is
49:47
terrified about it doesn't want to face it needs to act out roles of the big
49:55
powerful and then doesn't understand why it seems to make these terrible mistakes
50:01
losing all these wars spending all this
50:07
money a Chinese leader once said some years ago you come here and you don't
50:14
understand the simplest thing to an American visitor do you know how much
50:20
you spend on Military you call it defense you spend more than the next
50:27
nine countries combined which includes both Russia and
50:34
China all right we don't we use that money to lift our
50:41
people out of poverty so here's the problem for you Mr American said this Chinese
50:49
person the world is racing to see which is the more successful foreign policy
50:58
the one that lifts everybody out of poverty or the one that has a military
51:04
base in 700 places around the world the jury is out on that question is not at
51:12
all clear but what is clear is that the Chinese have been able
51:18
to devote their resources to building up their economy and they've done so in a
51:24
way that no one has ever done before and that has caught the United States
51:30
unprepared and unable to do very much about it and yeah I'm not Mr Mir sher's
51:38
need uh and as I say I respect him I've learned from him this is not at all a
51:43
critique but his need to to see it as a dead end that there is no solution I
51:51
believe he likes to use the term a frozen war in the that somehow Ukraine
51:58
will end up being a frozen war with a frozen Russian army confronting a frozen
52:05
NATO army they can't move forward they they're frozen you know and then he
52:10
seems to think this will last forever I don't believe I really I don't believe that people on either side would
52:17
tolerate
52:22
this
