Where is Middle East headed after OCT 7 & US role? (w Norman Finkelstein, Vijay & Jeffrey Sachs).
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Where is Middle East headed after OCT 7 & US role? (w Norman Finkelstein, Vijay & Jeffrey Sachs). (youtube.com)
There's different ways to understand the withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan and so on. The first way is that we need to understand that the Iraqis voted in their parliament to eject the United States. So, it's not, it wasn't a voluntary withdrawal. The United States was kicked out of Iraq. You know, the landlord said we are going to evict you. Now, they didn't leave northern Iraq and the reason they didn't leave northern Iraq is they've been there actually since before Saddam Hussein's removal from office. This goes back to 1991 and those military entanglement with various Kurdish political parties continues. Okay, but they were kicked out of Iraq. The United States was also kicked out of Afghanistan. The Taliban had a military victory. They roared into Kabul, you know, from having controlled most of the country. So, those were not withdrawals by choice. They were removed. You know, Farid is an embarrassment to his great father who was one of the, you know, important nationalist scholars in India. You know, it's an embarrassment for him to say pivot from the Middle East. Brother, there was no pivot. They were thrown out. I mean, it's different. Pivot, you know, suggests a choice. You made a choice, a strategic choice. You were ejected. Let's face the fact, okay, which is why, for instance, in Syed Hassan Nasrallah's speech in the early days of this conflict, a couple of two weeks into it in October, Mr Nasrallah pointed out that the United States was defeated in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And he said, don't threaten us. We will defeat you. I mean, maybe it's Bragado speaking, but he was factual in that. Secondly, it's the US influence that has actually deteriorated in the region. And that has got very little to do with the region per se and more to do with geopolitics. I mean, the United States simply doesn't have the economic power or the economic ambition that, for instance, China has in that region. You know, Saudi Arabia, for instance, has pivoted to China away from the United States, not because of some military disengagement by the US. US bases, as you rightly said, are still there in Bahrain, in Qatar, in, you know, other parts of the Gulf. You know, it's not like the United States broke down their bases. No, they're still militarily there. But countries in the Gulf, just to take the desert Arabs as a case in point, you know, countries in the Gulf are looking to China because China has a more ambitious economic project and more money. You know, they are even looking to India, actually, rather than the United States. In fact, the deal that was cut, the Middle East, India, Europe corridor, which is now defunct, was not so much about the United States, but it was about the interest in India. You know, India is an economy that's growing. It has its internal challenges, but there is economic growth. Mr. Gautam Adani owns the ports in Greece, in Haifa, and he has the ownership of the port in Gujarat, which would have been in that corridor. Adani owned at least three to four of the ports that were in that corridor. I often think it's not a Middle East, Europe, India corridor, but a Europe, you know, Middle East, Europe, Adani corridor, because he would have been an enormous beneficiary. You know, people don't realize he owns the port in Greece and in Haifa, not just the port in Gujarat. Anyway, these countries are pivoting away from the United States for economic reasons because of the lack of economic ability of the United States to drive an agenda there. So, in that sense, it's not that you can say, well, you know, the US has made some decision to disengage from the region. I don't think so. What's happened is a military defeat in Iraq, important defeat or rather an ejection by the parliament, but a defeat in Afghanistan, certainly a strategic defeat in Syria. They were not able to bring down the government of Bashar al-Assad, even though troops remain in Northern Syria. It was a strategic, major strategic defeat because they were not able to, in a sense, create that corridor of US power that they wanted, you know, put pressure on Lebanon. If the US had been able to overthrow Bashar al-Assad, they would have gone in and basically tried to clean out Hezbollah. That would have created a big strategic opportunity for the United States. All of that wasn't available. They were removed from Iraq. They were defeated in Afghanistan and in Syria, and they don't have the economic muscle to drive an agenda with the desert Arabs. So that's the reason they pivoted. Their sole political, you know, power, pressure is in Israel, Morocco, a couple of the smaller principalities, maybe Bahrain to some extent, and in a kind of convoluted way, Egypt. This is where the United States continues to have some, you know, forward influence, but certainly Israel and Morocco, which is why Trump pushed the Abraham Accords with Israel, Morocco and Bahrain. That was the axis of normalization with, with the, you know, Israelis. Very clear that that was the agenda to strengthen those that remain, but everybody else is lost, including Jordan in some small way, particularly during this conflict. Well, if the US doesn't back up Israel, Israel can't even keep up the war in Gaza, much less a wider Middle East war. The war in Gaza is supported by US munitions almost on a daily basis. So if the US cuts support, Israel has to stop, period. It's not a matter of extending to Lebanon, the Red Sea, Iran. That would be a major, major war. By the way, a major war not only for Israel, but a major war for the United States, as well, and the US has just sent one carrier group back from the region back to the United States. So it's a signal that the US is not at all interested in a wider war. There are crazy US politicians like Lindsey Graham, who loves war anytime, anywhere, and he said we need to bomb Iran. He used even more extreme language, but basically this is not the position of the Pentagon, and it's not the position of the American people. You raised the question of whether the public has some say in foreign policy. In general, not very much, but being an election year this year, it's strange, but foreign policy is much more on the agenda, because there's a sense that Biden is incompetent, has lost control, that the US has pulled into too many conflicts, and this is weighing on public opinion, especially because Donald Trump has been against funding Ukraine, and the Republican base is really not in favor of this spending, or particularly in terms of these wars. It's complicated, but I think in general, the mood in the United States is, my God, we've got enough problems at home. What the hell are we doing getting into more and more and more of these wars? And Biden looks very weak and inconsequential, and he's a poor communicator in general. So this is a time when American public opinion is having an effect, especially in the Republican Party, which is not really wanting to fund Biden's adventures abroad. Israel obviously is a critical player for the United States because it's the only power in the region with which the U.S. has a common language, cultural language. When they go to Saudi Arabia or they go to the Emirates or they go to Bahrain or they go to Egypt or they go to Jordan, they're speaking in their minds. They're speaking to the seventh century, whereas when they're with Israel, they're speaking with their college roommates. It's a totally different relationship. And also, there's so much intelligence cooperation and so much revolving door between the Israelis and the Americans. They all know each other on a first-name basis. They're all friends. And there's a belief, not entirely wrong but not entirely correct either, that Israelis have the talent to that Israelis have the technological competence, the mental know-how such that they represent an entirely different breed than the so-called Arab allies. So for those reasons, Israel remains a fundamental factor in U.S. strategic thinking. I don't know where that's going to lead us. The Israelis obviously want to attack Iran and the U.S. is reluctant to take that step so far. And I don't know where that's going to go. I think the U.S. is probably more realistic than the Israelis about taking that step. I think the Israelis are completely insane, not in a moral sense. When I hear people like Benny Morris, the Israeli historian, keeps pounding those war drums to attack Iran, I really have to ask myself, are these people so completely detached from reality? Hezbollah will annihilate Israel. It's just a tiny place. The Hezbollah has a very high level of technical competence, both in terms of the armaments they have and in terms of their ability to use them. Do they really believe that they could survive a Hezbollah attack in the event that the U.S. and Israel target Iran? I think that's completely nuts. Hezbollah knows every single vital nerve in Israeli society, like the back of their hands. They know exactly what to target that will turn out to be terminal. I can't even grasp, as Oprah would say, I can't wrap my mind around what goes through the heads of these people. When I hear people like Benny Morris, I ask myself, have you not noticed that you can't even inflict a military defeat on Hamas? It's already four and a half months and you haven't been able to successfully target a single Hamas leader in Gaza? That you don't even know where they are? That in this tiny, tiny, tiny parcel of land, this pinprick's pinprick on the world's map, this grain of sand in the Sahara, with all of your super sophisticated spy technology, and all of what's called human intelligence in Gaza, all of those supporters of the Palestinian authority, who are now your spies, that you don't even know where the hostages are? You don't have a clue where they are? And you think you're going to defeat Hezbollah and Iran? Or you think you'll use your nuclear weapons and get away with it? That Nisrallah won't understand that if you nuke Iran, Hezbollah is next and he won't preemptively finish you off? I don't get these people. Now, I'm not having military knowledge, but certain things are pretty obvious. They've not been able to defeat Hamas. They weren't able to do so in 2008-09 during Cast Lead. They weren't able to do so during Pillar of Defense. They weren't able to do so during Protective Edge. And with no restraints whatsoever, none. And after four and a half months, they've not been able to do it again. And you think you can take on Iran and the party of God? It doesn't make sense to me. We're in a very dark period. Because I do, as I said, I think Israel has a legitimate fear. I mean, many people aren't going to like what I'm saying, but I have to be honest about these things. There is now a view among the Arabs that Israel can be defeated. And Israel doesn't see any other option except to restore their deterrence capacity, and that means inflicting a military defeat on Hezbollah and inflicting significant enough death and destruction as to deter anybody from taking, following the lead from Hamas. Do you see any change of attitude among the U.S. allies in the Gulf with the recent... Listen, I'm sure they're rooting for Israel to win. You think so? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Because any victory, any defeat for the, or any even partial defeat for Israel, they see as a victory for what's called the axis of resistance. So they won. Look at what's happening now. If you look at the countries that supported the South African intervention at the ICJ, it did not include Saudi Arabia. It did not. There was... Egypt eventually came on board. Jordan eventually came on board. But the Gulf states, with the exception of Qatar, don't quote me on that because I'm not positive, they did not come on board, and Saudi Arabia was not there. As Christopher Gunness, the former spokesperson for UNRWA pointed out, it would be a fraction, excuse me, a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of Saudi oil revenues to replace the United States and the European powers in financing UNRWA. The total figure comes to 440 million dollars. That's how much MBS spends on prostitutes in a weekend. All prostitutes and liquor. And a weekend. Do you see them coming forward to replacing the US and the Europeans? It's nothing. It's small change for them. 440 million dollars. They're not doing it. They want to see those cars and start. Absolutely. They want that defeat. Because if Gaza is not defeated, the axis of resistance will take credit for it. And they don't want that. This is also very depressing in a way, isn't it? Look, it's a very depressing situation. As I said, we're entering a dark period. Then it's a zero-sum period. I didn't notice that in the Hamas counter-proposal, they didn't speak at all about ending the conflict. They talked about ending armed hostilities. 145 days, three phase of ceasefire or something. A full Israeli withdrawal, an end of the blockade, a humanitarian relief, reconstruction, and everything. An exchange of hostages. Exchange of hostages for Palestinians held in Israeli jails. They had a detailed plan. It was a good document because it showed these people, they have knowledge of the ground. They know exactly what needs to be done. They know exactly the sequence it has to be done in. But what was noticeably absent, because you have to recall, there's all this talk about what we're going to do the day after, and we have to resuscitate the two-state settlement, and who's going to come in and govern, and when are the Palestinian authorities going to play a role? That was completely absent from the document. Totally absent. The only thing they were concerned about was the humanitarian side, the military side, the reconstruction side, but nothing about an end to the conflict, and to military activity, military exchanges, but not to end the conflict.
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In this clip, we asked each three of the guests about the role of the US empire in the Middle East.
Link to Norman Finkelstein video: • Norman Finkelstein: Israel, Palestine...
Link to Vijay Prashad video: • Vijay Prashad on Palestine, US, Thoma...
Link to Jeffrey Sachs video: • Jeffrey Sachs on Israel war on Gaza &...
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link: https://paypal.me/sankymudiar Read more 
This is the DREAM TEAM. Vijay Prashad, Norman Finkelstein, and Jeffrey Sachs on the same platform!!! India & Global Left, this is world-class
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Norman Finkelstein is a living legend. Thank you, we can't listen to him enhough, special today xxx peace and free palestine ![]()
Norman finklestien... Wise, super intelligent, wonderful human being, moral powerhouse.... A true jew. God bless him ![]()
I started following this channel for Vijay Prashad. I saw him in many channels, commenting and I love it.
Same for Norman Finkelstain and Jeffrey Sachs.
Thank you for your work!![]()
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"The Nazis made me afraid of being Jewish. The Israelis make me ashamed of being Jewish." (Dr. Israel Shahak, organic chemistry professor, human and civil rights activist, and Holocaust survivor) ![]()
PROFESSOR NORM FINKELSTEIN IS AN ABSOLUTE GEM.HIS DEEPLY
KNOWLEDGE OF HISTORICAL
FACTS Is ASTONISHING.ALSO
HIS CAPACITY 2 EMPATHIZE
WITH THE OPPRESSED IS BEYOND HUMAN .HIS CALMNESS UNDER DURESS IS
TRULY INSPIRING.![]()
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Since 1945 China has lifted approximately 1 billion of its population out of poverty, in the same time frame since 1945 the U.S.A. has put a further 388 million of its population into poverty. ![]()
Mr Finkelstein's observation about MBS and him and his Gulf states cronies' desire for Hamas to be defeated hits very hard if you're from the Middle-East ![]()
I love Norman too but we missed too much by not hearing enough from Prof Jeffrey Sachs
There's different ways to understand the withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan and so on. The first way is that we need to understand that the Iraqis voted in their parliament to eject the United States. So, it's not, it wasn't a voluntary withdrawal. The United States was kicked out of Iraq. You know, the landlord said we are going to evict you. Now, they didn't leave northern Iraq and the reason they didn't leave northern Iraq is they've been there actually since before Saddam Hussein's removal from office. This goes back to 1991 and those military entanglement with various Kurdish political parties continues. Okay, but they were kicked out of Iraq. The United States was also kicked out of Afghanistan. The Taliban had a military victory. They roared into Kabul, you know, from having controlled most of the country. So, those were not withdrawals by choice. They were removed. You know, Farid is an embarrassment to his great father who was one of the, you know, important nationalist scholars in India. You know, it's an embarrassment for him to say pivot from the Middle East. Brother, there was no pivot. They were thrown out. I mean, it's different. Pivot, you know, suggests a choice. You made a choice, a strategic choice. You were ejected. Let's face the fact, okay, which is why, for instance, in Syed Hassan Nasrallah's speech in the early days of this conflict, a couple of two weeks into it in October, Mr Nasrallah pointed out that the United States was defeated in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And he said, don't threaten us. We will defeat you. I mean, maybe it's Bragado speaking, but he was factual in that. Secondly, it's the US influence that has actually deteriorated in the region. And that has got very little to do with the region per se and more to do with geopolitics. I mean, the United States simply doesn't have the economic power or the economic ambition that, for instance, China has in that region. You know, Saudi Arabia, for instance, has pivoted to China away from the United States, not because of some military disengagement by the US. US bases, as you rightly said, are still there in Bahrain, in Qatar, in, you know, other parts of the Gulf. You know, it's not like the United States broke down their bases. No, they're still militarily there. But countries in the Gulf, just to take the desert Arabs as a case in point, you know, countries in the Gulf are looking to China because China has a more ambitious economic project and more money. You know, they are even looking to India, actually, rather than the United States. In fact, the deal that was cut, the Middle East, India, Europe corridor, which is now defunct, was not so much about the United States, but it was about the interest in India. You know, India is an economy that's growing. It has its internal challenges, but there is economic growth. Mr. Gautam Adani owns the ports in Greece, in Haifa, and he has the ownership of the port in Gujarat, which would have been in that corridor. Adani owned at least three to four of the ports that were in that corridor. I often think it's not a Middle East, Europe, India corridor, but a Europe, you know, Middle East, Europe, Adani corridor, because he would have been an enormous beneficiary. You know, people don't realize he owns the port in Greece and in Haifa, not just the port in Gujarat. Anyway, these countries are pivoting away from the United States for economic reasons because of the lack of economic ability of the United States to drive an agenda there. So, in that sense, it's not that you can say, well, you know, the US has made some decision to disengage from the region. I don't think so. What's happened is a military defeat in Iraq, important defeat or rather an ejection by the parliament, but a defeat in Afghanistan, certainly a strategic defeat in Syria. They were not able to bring down the government of Bashar al-Assad, even though troops remain in Northern Syria. It was a strategic, major strategic defeat because they were not able to, in a sense, create that corridor of US power that they wanted, you know, put pressure on Lebanon. If the US had been able to overthrow Bashar al-Assad, they would have gone in and basically tried to clean out Hezbollah. That would have created a big strategic opportunity for the United States. All of that wasn't available. They were removed from Iraq. They were defeated in Afghanistan and in Syria, and they don't have the economic muscle to drive an agenda with the desert Arabs. So that's the reason they pivoted. Their sole political, you know, power, pressure is in Israel, Morocco, a couple of the smaller principalities, maybe Bahrain to some extent, and in a kind of convoluted way, Egypt. This is where the United States continues to have some, you know, forward influence, but certainly Israel and Morocco, which is why Trump pushed the Abraham Accords with Israel, Morocco and Bahrain. That was the axis of normalization with, with the, you know, Israelis. Very clear that that was the agenda to strengthen those that remain, but everybody else is lost, including Jordan in some small way, particularly during this conflict. Well, if the US doesn't back up Israel, Israel can't even keep up the war in Gaza, much less a wider Middle East war. The war in Gaza is supported by US munitions almost on a daily basis. So if the US cuts support, Israel has to stop, period. It's not a matter of extending to Lebanon, the Red Sea, Iran. That would be a major, major war. By the way, a major war not only for Israel, but a major war for the United States, as well, and the US has just sent one carrier group back from the region back to the United States. So it's a signal that the US is not at all interested in a wider war. There are crazy US politicians like Lindsey Graham, who loves war anytime, anywhere, and he said we need to bomb Iran. He used even more extreme language, but basically this is not the position of the Pentagon, and it's not the position of the American people. You raised the question of whether the public has some say in foreign policy. In general, not very much, but being an election year this year, it's strange, but foreign policy is much more on the agenda, because there's a sense that Biden is incompetent, has lost control, that the US has pulled into too many conflicts, and this is weighing on public opinion, especially because Donald Trump has been against funding Ukraine, and the Republican base is really not in favor of this spending, or particularly in terms of these wars. It's complicated, but I think in general, the mood in the United States is, my God, we've got enough problems at home. What the hell are we doing getting into more and more and more of these wars? And Biden looks very weak and inconsequential, and he's a poor communicator in general. So this is a time when American public opinion is having an effect, especially in the Republican Party, which is not really wanting to fund Biden's adventures abroad. Israel obviously is a critical player for the United States because it's the only power in the region with which the U.S. has a common language, cultural language. When they go to Saudi Arabia or they go to the Emirates or they go to Bahrain or they go to Egypt or they go to Jordan, they're speaking in their minds. They're speaking to the seventh century, whereas when they're with Israel, they're speaking with their college roommates. It's a totally different relationship. And also, there's so much intelligence cooperation and so much revolving door between the Israelis and the Americans. They all know each other on a first-name basis. They're all friends. And there's a belief, not entirely wrong but not entirely correct either, that Israelis have the talent to that Israelis have the technological competence, the mental know-how such that they represent an entirely different breed than the so-called Arab allies. So for those reasons, Israel remains a fundamental factor in U.S. strategic thinking. I don't know where that's going to lead us. The Israelis obviously want to attack Iran and the U.S. is reluctant to take that step so far. And I don't know where that's going to go. I think the U.S. is probably more realistic than the Israelis about taking that step. I think the Israelis are completely insane, not in a moral sense. When I hear people like Benny Morris, the Israeli historian, keeps pounding those war drums to attack Iran, I really have to ask myself, are these people so completely detached from reality? Hezbollah will annihilate Israel. It's just a tiny place. The Hezbollah has a very high level of technical competence, both in terms of the armaments they have and in terms of their ability to use them. Do they really believe that they could survive a Hezbollah attack in the event that the U.S. and Israel target Iran? I think that's completely nuts. Hezbollah knows every single vital nerve in Israeli society, like the back of their hands. They know exactly what to target that will turn out to be terminal. I can't even grasp, as Oprah would say, I can't wrap my mind around what goes through the heads of these people. When I hear people like Benny Morris, I ask myself, have you not noticed that you can't even inflict a military defeat on Hamas? It's already four and a half months and you haven't been able to successfully target a single Hamas leader in Gaza? That you don't even know where they are? That in this tiny, tiny, tiny parcel of land, this pinprick's pinprick on the world's map, this grain of sand in the Sahara, with all of your super sophisticated spy technology, and all of what's called human intelligence in Gaza, all of those supporters of the Palestinian authority, who are now your spies, that you don't even know where the hostages are? You don't have a clue where they are? And you think you're going to defeat Hezbollah and Iran? Or you think you'll use your nuclear weapons and get away with it? That Nisrallah won't understand that if you nuke Iran, Hezbollah is next and he won't preemptively finish you off? I don't get these people. Now, I'm not having military knowledge, but certain things are pretty obvious. They've not been able to defeat Hamas. They weren't able to do so in 2008-09 during Cast Lead. They weren't able to do so during Pillar of Defense. They weren't able to do so during Protective Edge. And with no restraints whatsoever, none. And after four and a half months, they've not been able to do it again. And you think you can take on Iran and the party of God? It doesn't make sense to me. We're in a very dark period. Because I do, as I said, I think Israel has a legitimate fear. I mean, many people aren't going to like what I'm saying, but I have to be honest about these things. There is now a view among the Arabs that Israel can be defeated. And Israel doesn't see any other option except to restore their deterrence capacity, and that means inflicting a military defeat on Hezbollah and inflicting significant enough death and destruction as to deter anybody from taking, following the lead from Hamas. Do you see any change of attitude among the U.S. allies in the Gulf with the recent... Listen, I'm sure they're rooting for Israel to win. You think so? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Because any victory, any defeat for the, or any even partial defeat for Israel, they see as a victory for what's called the axis of resistance. So they won. Look at what's happening now. If you look at the countries that supported the South African intervention at the ICJ, it did not include Saudi Arabia. It did not. There was... Egypt eventually came on board. Jordan eventually came on board. But the Gulf states, with the exception of Qatar, don't quote me on that because I'm not positive, they did not come on board, and Saudi Arabia was not there. As Christopher Gunness, the former spokesperson for UNRWA pointed out, it would be a fraction, excuse me, a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of Saudi oil revenues to replace the United States and the European powers in financing UNRWA. The total figure comes to 440 million dollars. That's how much MBS spends on prostitutes in a weekend. All prostitutes and liquor. And a weekend. Do you see them coming forward to replacing the US and the Europeans? It's nothing. It's small change for them. 440 million dollars. They're not doing it. They want to see those cars and start. Absolutely. They want that defeat. Because if Gaza is not defeated, the axis of resistance will take credit for it. And they don't want that. This is also very depressing in a way, isn't it? Look, it's a very depressing situation. As I said, we're entering a dark period. Then it's a zero-sum period. I didn't notice that in the Hamas counter-proposal, they didn't speak at all about ending the conflict. They talked about ending armed hostilities. 145 days, three phase of ceasefire or something. A full Israeli withdrawal, an end of the blockade, a humanitarian relief, reconstruction, and everything. An exchange of hostages. Exchange of hostages for Palestinians held in Israeli jails. They had a detailed plan. It was a good document because it showed these people, they have knowledge of the ground. They know exactly what needs to be done. They know exactly the sequence it has to be done in. But what was noticeably absent, because you have to recall, there's all this talk about what we're going to do the day after, and we have to resuscitate the two-state settlement, and who's going to come in and govern, and when are the Palestinian authorities going to play a role? That was completely absent from the document. Totally absent. The only thing they were concerned about was the humanitarian side, the military side, the reconstruction side, but nothing about an end to the conflict, and to military activity, military exchanges, but not to end the conflict.
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English (India)
Where is Middle East headed after OCT 7 & US role? (w Norman Finkelstein, Vijay & Jeffrey Sachs).
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/ @indiagloballeft
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In this clip, we asked each three of the guests about the role of the US empire in the Middle East.
Link to Norman Finkelstein video: • Norman Finkelstein: Israel, Palestine...
Link to Vijay Prashad video: • Vijay Prashad on Palestine, US, Thoma...
Link to Jeffrey Sachs video: • Jeffrey Sachs on Israel war on Gaza &...
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We are also looking for sponsorships or small donations. If you can, consider giving us what you can. Thanks.
Write to us at indiagloballeft@gmail.com
🔴🔴🔴Transcript
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